Balancing elements

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Re: Balancing elements

Postby Aerialace » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:19 am

Manx616 wrote:
Aerialace wrote:And to counter pure water, i increased the chance for critical chance and combustion chance for lightning and fire... So pure water can be still one hit..


Noone should be able to 1 hit kill you know? 2 hit kills should be the best for either lightning, fire and 8 ext users... at least 2 hits without buffs...


Lol.. Did i say one hit kill first turn??? do you really think it is my intention when i said that?? CAN'T you see that i reduced all attack bonus damage of fire from 1 to 0.5% and critical damage from 0.4% to 0.25%?? i made that to reduce their damage and to avoid the 1st turn kill.. so, they really need to increase their attack damage first before they can kill pure water w/o need to stun them in JUST ONE HIT (reduce all opponent's hp in just one single attack)... Gets?? Since, pure water is still vulnerable to attacks unlike wind that can dodge stun and evade most attacks.. pure water has only resistance to debuffs but still open to all offensive attacks.. besides, pvp battle that ends in just 10 secs is so annoying.. do you want that kind of battle?? do i really need to explain my words very well for you to understand my point?? or you can just your common sense?? now can you still say pure water w/ 0.8% purify chance can overpowered other elements?? if you are not contended, read my next comment.. :)
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Re: Balancing elements

Postby Aerialace » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:02 am

Aerialace wrote:So players will think if they use pure water on battle or only hybrid it..


Manx616 wrote:hybrid typing is always nice, but it has so many disadvantages, like for example, reduced dmg... Is almost only good on 8 ext users since they attack with taijutsu and they dont have to worry about deal less dmg


So youre saying that pvp battles should be battle of the pure elements only??? i think thats not the intention of the creators of this game when they introduced it.. can you see that everyone has more than one element that we can use?? thats bec they still want us to distribute our points between the 2 or 3 elements that we choose though its part of the strategy if you want to go pure.. why you're worry bout 8ex?? taijutsu attacks dont have bonus damage gets from any element (fire all attack bonus damage is its secondary effect, aside from that fire jutsu gets another 1% damage per point).. so you're planning to hybrid in the other elements that is not your element ( say your wind water & earth and invest your point to Lightning and Fire)?? is that what you want?? if your going to hybrid make at least one or both to your elements and not to others.. if you invest in point in your element, that element can get 1 bonus damage per point.. be smart in hybridizing...and i think one of the best solution to solve the imbalance of the elements is to force (i mean, just give us reason) players to hybrid their points.. in that way, the game is unpredictable.. How?? by making the element abilities equal in power (my suggestion can help a little bit).. i tried to use different hybrid in pvp and the result is not that bad just like you think.. but what i dont want is the purify chance that water gives.. if i hybrid my point to say, 40water and 40fire, i only get 16% purify chance.. TO LITTLE, right?? usually this is what happened: they stun me (of course, there are so many wind-stunner in pvp) and... OHH NOO!!! i dont purify until i die even i spent half of my attributes to water.. why?? is is not obvious?? i can only purify once yo twice for every 10turns (1.6/10) and my opponent only needs 3 turns to kill me while im on my 2nd turn (1st round: he stun me, im stunned!!.. 2nd round: he strenghten, im stunned!!.. 3rd round: he killed me).. do i need to rely on pet here?? pets are just support. they dont know what they're doing even their master is in critical situation.. back to topic..the defensive buff of water comes to nothing bec of its low chance of triggering.. so, i doubled the chance and make it 0.8%.. if you hybrid it, you can only gets 32% purify chance.. not that high like you said that makes water overpowered.. or if you go to pure water, youll get only 64% purify chance.. is that overpowered?? if you'll go pure water, you can just get resistance to debuff but not to attacks (im repeating it too much for you to understand well).. so water can still be killed easily.. beside, if pure water is facing opponents that dont rely on debuff to kill enemy like me (i rarely bring stun in battle and my talents dont have stun), their purify is useless.. though its rarely happen, so i really want water to have high chance of purify as part of their defense and to minimize the use of stun-first turn in game... i really dont think so pure water can overpowered other elements w/ just high chance of purify.. and o counter the high point i made, i reduced their healing bonus from 1 to 0.5% but i think 0.75% will be okay.. if you think hybrid ninja is weak bec they cant get the full potential of the element, i think you're wrong.. for me, hybrid ninjas are cool.. you dont know where they spent their points (maybe you'll know hybrid wind bec of its agility but you'll wonder where did he put the other points).. unlike what happened in pvp today where almost players are so predictable.. and hybrid ninjas can get 2-3 special attributes of the elements.. maybe it is not that high (that's why i increased the effects triggering) but combined w/ right jutsu and stuffs, you can still win the match.. and pvp is a strategy game, so it will test the strategy skill of players and not that usual thing where same strategy are use by many players..thats why i always try different element combination or pure when playing pvp and not stick to pure wind like many did.. though im not saying every element combo is all good.. of course, 1 factor is your chosen elements.. it will be the players choice what combo they want to use accdg. to their jutsu and stuffs IF they want to hybrid..
Last edited by Aerialace on Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Balancing elements

Postby Aerialace » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:52 am

Aerialace wrote: My only concern here is pure earth because of their high hp and 70% chance of reactive force.. Only pure fire and lightning can kill them w/o ease.. But if their reactive force trigger the time full fire or lightning attacks, the attackerwill get 30% damage.. Say the attack damage is 5000 (i also decrease critical damage and fire bonus damage), the attacket will get 1500 damage.. Half hp of pure fire and lightning.. Of course 5000damage will not be enough to kill pure earth especially those who have good stuffs and on their turn they can easily kill pure lightning and fire with half hp remaining.. So i decrease their reactive force to 15% but increase the chance of trigerring..


Manx616 wrote:for this scenario, I think 30% reactive force at 0.4% chance per point is very cool... It wont trigger as often but when it does its gonna be a pain in the arse

Afterall imo, earth element is the most balanced to me... they can heal, drain chakra, protect, they have ton of HP, they can rebound dmg, they can purify and deal high dmg.... they have everything

All im asking for to reach balance is a way to make pure fire and lightning users defend... like blind chance and bloodfeed, maybe even through kinjutsus..

for water I think they need more survivability and thats all... extra HP per point, and adding more purify back items and weapons would be cool.. but you CANT give them extra HP points without giving earth users some extra CP per point too..

and for wind a nerfing in agility (like 0.3 agility per point) but adding another extra ability to bring the balance to them (either bleeding for more dmg or weaken for more survivability)


nope.. it will ruin my points allocation (0.8water. 0.7earth, 0.6lightning. 0.5fire and 0.4wind).. is it not cool?? :) to help balance the element, we need increase-decrease method.. increase all underpowered and decrease those overpowered.. then it will be balance.. :)

then,

Bloodfeed on fire?? just bec of lvl 5 fire kinjutsu reward in 2013 anniv?? you just want your element to become powerful!! when devs made the elements, they have specific ability.. naturally, fire has the strong attacks but it really lacks of defensive move.. Is it not obviou why?? i TRIED to use pure fire and i one-hit pure earth (reduce all hp in just one massive attack)..then you want fire to have bloodfeed?? i know that you're talking about the elemental kinjutsu available in academy.. you want to add another kinjutsu for each element.. just wait if devs make lvl 70 or 80 kinjutsu.. but do you really think, adding another kinjutsu can help the game balance?? the main problem that causing it aside from SOME OP weapons and jutsu clan rewards (im not saying all bec some are still not that good) is the imbalance of attribute points.. maybe it can help but they should fix the attribute first before adding another elemental kinjutsu so they can think their effects well w/o making the game unbalance again.. and dont blame fire if it has (almost) no defense skills.. it is natural for fire to have limited defensive moves.. do i really need to explain clearly why?? if you want defense then go to wind, water or earth.. does devs say to you to make fire as one of your elements?? :) it is the reason why everyone can have 2-3 elements.. to have at least 1 defense and 1 offense element.. is it the common strategy we're using right?? just be happy that devs made rage for fire, and why you're not including hellfire as its main strength?? it really helps in high hp boss battle.. in all other elements, fire has only 24% hp burn..water prison has only 8%.. others dont have.. is it not helpful?? couz youre talking only on pvp.. is the game involves pvp only??.... Earth is the only supportive type element.. it is on the center right?? so naturally, it can defense or offense.. but all its move now can be dispersed easily since earth is slow and no agility.. its cp drain is just a support, see it has low based-damage and anyone can gain cp in just one charge.. and there are lots of jutsu that dont require high cp consumption PLUS they can be in critical situation if their opponent is DE... Lightning has already blind.. why you need more?? and if yoour talent is demon sound, there's a skill that blinds opponent (20% accuracy reduction 3turns).. so good for lightning since if they use lightning jutsu, there is possibilty of weaken (20% damage reduction 3turns)..and their critical chance is so critical.. many weapons now are created with critical chance and damage increase.. though not high but nif combine with their poin attributes, it can be a problem.. though, i tried to use hybrid lightning and i got only 24% critical chance (w/ weapon and back item), but the chance of triggering is not that good since there is possibility that it wont activate on my finishing blow so the result is failure.. (16% critical chance in hybrid is not enough).. so i increased the chance from 0.4 to 0.6 but lowers the critical damage from 0.4% to 0.25%.. And lightning has also many good kinjutsu available... Survivability on water?? does strong purify chance cant survive them?? they dont need to worry about debuffs.. all they need is to protect like cp shield, protection (of course they have other elements), etc. and then go for the kill.. if they hybrid to Fire or Lightning they can make strong attacks combined w/ right stuffs.. and why you put hp on water?? you're breaking the distribution of effects.. Cp increase is for water.. and they have refresh to survive attacks.. is it the only NINJUTSU that recovers HP?? if you want more hp, hybrid to earth.. :) combine with talent nature power and youll gonna be strong.. Elemental kinjutsu can be strong in different ways but i can say that some are still useless.... i really dont think so that devs will use all of our suggestions here.. maybe only some or nothing at all.. but still, i just want to comment what is on my mind.. i put all of what i know here based on my experience but i know there is still some error in my opinions... so, it is up to devs now...
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Re: Balancing elements

Postby Aerialace » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:05 am

Manx616 wrote:
Aerialace wrote:Over power water???. Lol.. Do you think how strong water attack is??? Its damage is too small with low hp but only high cp.. This will help for many ninjas to spent attributes on water and not concentrate only on fire wind and earth.. Those are three commonly used in pvp.. Maybe youre one of those stunner in the game.. Thats why youre afraid of.. Lol! Or are you afraid of DE?? But their meridian kekkei only affects at least 4jutsu as far as i know..


hell no :ugeek: I'm pure water dark eye myself, and I dont carry many stuns (only the ones from hidden silhouette and smothering bind), I rather using buffs so don't assume sh1t


then it will be good for you, but you still use stun admit it, its part of your talent.. and for sure your not always pure water like you said..sometimes or more often you switch to other element.. and if you really use pure water, you know that purify chance activate only several times.. and your emblem right??? does all your characters is pure water DE ninja?? maybe one or two but not all.. hahaha.. and dont say bad words to me.. :) did i say anything bad words in all of my comment to you??.. i wonder why i didnt read this before.. only your last comment... stay calm dude... :D
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Re: Balancing elements

Postby Shirou士郎 » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:57 am

Its obvious that agility is the cause of imbalance. As we go into missions, hunting house and bosses, we're awfully slow.
Absolutely adding decimals into attribute will be great :roll:
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Re: Balancing elements

Postby colmillonegro » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:06 am

Manx616 wrote:As a pure water ninja, I dislike the idea behind being slower than pure lightning + pure fire and still having the average HP but crapton of CP...

I would rather have +30 CP +20 HP per every point invested in water (this way they will survive more hits from the fastest elements too and to prevent the massive DMG rebound from dark eye users who lost chakra)

and earth should get +30 HP and + 20CP per every point invested in earth (this way they will spend less time recharging chakra and to prevent the massive regeneration from weapons and skills that heal % hp)

Hmmm I don't agree with the 30/20 HP/CP thing, because that would make water best than earth. Just look at it at this way: At lvl 100 Full water would have big amount of chakra, purify chance, a more speed that full earth, and all this just by sacrificing 1000 HP for not being full earth. I'm not saying that 1k HP isn't a good extra amount of HP, but since earths are vulnerable to stun and debuffs and would be slower, that just would make people go into full water all the time.

Maybe a 40HP & 10CP for earths and 10HP & 40CP for waters could work.

About the 0.2 agiliti for earths, that will make the gap between full earth and full thunder/winds 0.2 less than it would be. That's not much, but it could be the difference between an extre turn every 5 turns or every 6 turns, and that's A BIG fact that could give you a big advantage in a match.
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Re: Balancing elements

Postby Manx616 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:32 am

colmillonegro wrote:
Manx616 wrote:As a pure water ninja, I dislike the idea behind being slower than pure lightning + pure fire and still having the average HP but crapton of CP...

I would rather have +30 CP +20 HP per every point invested in water (this way they will survive more hits from the fastest elements too and to prevent the massive DMG rebound from dark eye users who lost chakra)

and earth should get +30 HP and + 20CP per every point invested in earth (this way they will spend less time recharging chakra and to prevent the massive regeneration from weapons and skills that heal % hp)

Hmmm I don't agree with the 30/20 HP/CP thing, because that would make water best than earth. Just look at it at this way: At lvl 100 Full water would have big amount of chakra, purify chance, a more speed that full earth, and all this just by sacrificing 1000 HP for not being full earth. I'm not saying that 1k HP isn't a good extra amount of HP, but since earths are vulnerable to stun and debuffs and would be slower, that just would make people go into full water all the time.

Maybe a 40HP & 10CP for earths and 10HP & 40CP for waters could work.

About the 0.2 agiliti for earths, that will make the gap between full earth and full thunder/winds 0.2 less than it would be. That's not much, but it could be the difference between an extre turn every 5 turns or every 6 turns, and that's A BIG fact that could give you a big advantage in a match.


800 extra HP is still not enough to survive the one hit KO from 8 ext, but OK still a nice extra boost...

I was waiting for you to response, or any other mod.

Can you please help me make *** of all these suggestions in a single one and post it please? :/

I would like to MASS SEND it to devs, but i will need the help from everyone as we all are aware that balance is needed
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Re: Balancing elements

Postby colmillonegro » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:42 pm

Manx616 wrote:800 extra HP is still not enough to survive the one hit KO from 8 ext, but OK still a nice extra boost...

I was waiting for you to response, or any other mod.

Can you please help me make *** of all these suggestions in a single one and post it please? :/

I would like to MASS SEND it to devs, but i will need the help from everyone as we all are aware that balance is needed


For time issues is a little complicated for me to read everything and split the things all the usefull suggestions (That's why I just log in like 1 time every week, so I can't do that bro, sorry :?

But if you can tell me what posts you want to split, I could help you with that next time I come here.
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Re: Balancing elements

Postby eonstratus » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:52 pm

colmillonegro wrote:
Manx616 wrote:800 extra HP is still not enough to survive the one hit KO from 8 ext, but OK still a nice extra boost...

I was waiting for you to response, or any other mod.

Can you please help me make *** of all these suggestions in a single one and post it please? :/

I would like to MASS SEND it to devs, but i will need the help from everyone as we all are aware that balance is needed


For time issues is a little complicated for me to read everything and split the things all the usefull suggestions (That's why I just log in like 1 time every week, so I can't do that bro, sorry :?

But if you can tell me what posts you want to split, I could help you with that next time I come here.

I Think reifayeran already started a thread for this with all the combined ideas, in the suggestions section.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=277793
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Re: Balancing elements

Postby reifayeran » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:09 pm

the game need to balance not just the attribute i think

maybe there should be more threads about
- attribute
- jutsu/talents
- weapon/BI
- class skill
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