Balancing elements

Discuss Ninja Saga

Moderators: colmillonegro, dannytranvan, Jole-Kze, Moderators

Re: Balancing elements

Postby Zuhdan » Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:09 pm

arijanm wrote:That's a nice suggestion. You can go like this:

Wind - 1 agility per points
Lightning - 0.7 agility per point
Water - 0.5 agility per point
Fire - 0.3 agility per point
Earth - 0.1 agility per point

Then they'd have to add decimals to the agility, of course.

Thats was really great idea
I think your genius improve so much when im inactive ari
Spoiler: show
Thats was stupid dev
i remember some old forumer like Lukystar has suggested some brilliant idea few years ago but dev still do nothing about it
No Longer active on this forum
Spoiler: show
Image
User avatar
Zuhdan
 
Posts: 2711
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:07 am
Location: Banner Village - Toran Republic

Re: Balancing elements

Postby reifayeran » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:45 pm

arijanm wrote:That's a nice suggestion. You can go like this:

Wind - 1 agility per point / HP +10 / CP +20
Lightning - 0.8 agility per point / HP +0 / CP +10
Earth - 0.6 agility per point / HP +40 / CP +0
Water - 0.4 agility per point / HP +30 / CP +40
Fire - 0.2 agility per point / HP +20 / CP +30

Then they'd have to add decimals to the agility, of course.


how about this?
Image
Image
User avatar
reifayeran
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:53 am
Location: Gensokyo

Re: Balancing elements

Postby arijanm » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:34 am

reifayeran wrote:
arijanm wrote:That's a nice suggestion. You can go like this:

Wind - 1 agility per point / HP +10 / CP +20
Lightning - 0.8 agility per point / HP +0 / CP +10
Earth - 0.6 agility per point / HP +40 / CP +0
Water - 0.4 agility per point / HP +30 / CP +40
Fire - 0.2 agility per point / HP +20 / CP +30

Then they'd have to add decimals to the agility, of course.


how about this?


That's actually good adding HP and CP, but earth shouldn't get that much agility.
I'm sure for everything we suggest the devs can take into consideration and balance it.
EXAM HELP: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheLegendOfAri
Image
THE BOSS suggestion.The Dragon Lord.
:arrow: http://www.ninjasaga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42760
User avatar
arijanm
 
Posts: 1778
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:42 am
Location: Serbia

Re: Balancing elements

Postby reifayeran » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:04 am

arijanm wrote:
reifayeran wrote:
arijanm wrote:That's a nice suggestion. You can go like this:

Wind - 1 agility per point / HP +10 / CP +20
Lightning - 0.8 agility per point / HP +0 / CP +10
Earth - 0.6 agility per point / HP +40 / CP +0
Water - 0.4 agility per point / HP +30 / CP +40
Fire - 0.2 agility per point / HP +20 / CP +30

Then they'd have to add decimals to the agility, of course.


how about this?


That's actually good adding HP and CP, but earth shouldn't get that much agility.
I'm sure for everything we suggest the devs can take into consideration and balance it.


cuz i use simple rule, element stronger must move faster, start with wind
wind > lightning > earth > water > fire > wind

with HP/CP flow from max to min so its 40>10
hp start with earth, cp start with water (game's rule)
and i wanna break the rule that earth must be slowest

but if u want earth to slowest, u can use reverse type

Lightning - 1 agility per point / HP +0 / CP +0
Wind - 0.8 agility per point / HP +0 / CP +10
Fire - 0.6 agility per point / HP +10 / CP +20
Water - 0.4 agility per point / HP +20 / CP +30
Earth - 0.2 agility per point / HP +30 / CP +0

now reverse with element weaker can move faster

anyway, just a suggest so its up to dev

Spoiler: show
well, i just thing some balance type use rule of distribution too, but i think its not good like that

rule: every element has 1.5 pts
1 agi = 1 pts, 0.75 agi = 0.75 pts
40 hp/cp = 1 pts, 30 hp = 0.75 pts, 20 hp = 0.5 pts, 10hp = 0.25 pts
and so on

example
lightning - 1 agility per point / HP +20 / CP +0
wind - 0.75 agility per point / HP +10 / CP +20
fire - 0.25 agility per point / HP +40 / CP +10
water - 0.5 agility per point / HP +0 / CP +40
earth - 0 agility per point / HP +30 / CP +30
Image
Image
User avatar
reifayeran
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:53 am
Location: Gensokyo

Re: Balancing elements

Postby Manx616 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:45 pm

I don't think wind users should get that much boost in hp or cp :3 since they can already dodge a lot, and their jutsus consume low cp thats unfair...

and adding agility to other elements is silly... nerfing wind agility from 1 to 0.33 should be better
Manx616
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:59 am

Re: Balancing elements

Postby reifayeran » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:39 pm

Manx616 wrote:I don't think wind users should get that much boost in hp or cp :3 since they can already dodge a lot, and their jutsus consume low cp thats unfair...

and adding agility to other elements is silly... nerfing wind agility from 1 to 0.33 should be better


1) wind is lowest damage (8x) thats why it cost less (8x), u see it can deal more damage than else cuz wind attribute give bonus damage to wind jutsu

2) boost hp/cp is just a suggestion, dev can allow it, change it or just ignore it

3) we already have accuracy to conter dodge

4) adding agi to other element to make them different not just only wind can act first but else random, and make agility to be useful and more strategy

5) nerfing agi from 1 to 0.33 still have double turn

6) when u level up, u get agi +1, hp +40, cp +40
- if u want to add agi to all element, then it should give hp/cp to all too (thats why i made suggestion)
- wind get 100% (+1 agi) while earth and water get 75% (+30 hp/cp), so another way to balance it should nerf agi to 0.75 and give something to lightning and fire
- if u want wind to get 33%, so does earth and water should get 33% per point (+13 hp/cp)

btw, from ur comment i can make something
Wind - 0.4 agility per point
Lightning - 0.2 agility per point / CP +8
Earth - 0 agility per point / HP +16
Water - 0 agility per point / CP +16
Fire - 0.2 agility per point / HP +8

Spoiler: show
just random making
Wind - 0.75 agility per point
Lightning - 0.5 agility per point / HP or CP +10
Earth - 0 agility per point / HP +30
Water - 0 agility per point / CP +30
Fire - 0.25 agility per point / HP or CP +20
Image
Image
User avatar
reifayeran
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:53 am
Location: Gensokyo

Re: Balancing elements

Postby eonstratus » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:03 am

I think even with the all the new speed suggestions, players (in pvp) will simply reset their points to the current fastest element and repeat the same strategies like before. (invest all in speed attribute + equip item with big accuracy (30% 40% 45% 80%), +stun, +buff damage, attack, repeat) also If defensive natures like earth and water will become the bottom of speed then there must be better resources for purify and reactive force in the game to give them a chance (lightning is a 1 hit killer with crit and fire can 2hit kill without any buff).

in short for balance, we need more purify weapons + back item and more reactive force weapons + back item (not limited time expiration ones but ones that will remain permanently available in the game and can be upgraded by level). also more weapons to counter other abilities would be good for variety, not just everything built anti-dodge all the time. It would be nice to see some weapons built with 25% protection/25% crit block or 25% Reactive force Pierce/25% de-purification (corruption). This would make the game more balanced and strategic because people would chose wisely how to cover their weaknesses and strengths. Instead of an endless contest of who can equip the best and biggest accuracy weapon. Lastly the water renewal token skill should be changed into +40% purify and Earths reactive force ability should be buffed to 50% damage return.

more diversity with the element system is not a bad idea I think the developers originally intended something similar. I remember reading something about wind will have speed but the lowest hp and damage, fire would have high damage medium/high hp, something like that but I cant find that guide anymore.
Image Image
Its because im calm, thats why i can fight you
Spoiler: show
name:Stratus
Title:The Frozen Heaven
current lv:80
element: Wind/Water
Class:Medic-Nin
rank:SNT
User avatar
eonstratus
 
Posts: 1118
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:42 am

Re: Balancing elements

Postby reifayeran » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:48 pm

eonstratus wrote:
Spoiler: show
I think even with the all the new speed suggestions, players (in pvp) will simply reset their points to the current fastest element and repeat the same strategies like before. (invest all in speed attribute + equip item with big accuracy (30% 40% 45% 80%), +stun, +buff damage, attack, repeat) also If defensive natures like earth and water will become the bottom of speed then there must be better resources for purify and reactive force in the game to give them a chance (lightning is a 1 hit killer with crit and fire can 2hit kill without any buff).

in short for balance, we need more purify weapons + back item and more reactive force weapons + back item (not limited time expiration ones but ones that will remain permanently available in the game and can be upgraded by level). also more weapons to counter other abilities would be good for variety, not just everything built anti-dodge all the time. It would be nice to see some weapons built with 25% protection/25% crit block or 25% Reactive force Pierce/25% de-purification (corruption). This would make the game more balanced and strategic because people would chose wisely how to cover their weaknesses and strengths. Instead of an endless contest of who can equip the best and biggest accuracy weapon. Lastly the water renewal token skill should be changed into +40% purify and Earths reactive force ability should be buffed to 50% damage return.

more diversity with the element system is not a bad idea I think the developers originally intended something similar. I remember reading something about wind will have speed but the lowest hp and damage, fire would have high damage medium/high hp, something like that but I cant find that guide anymore.


yes, even reduce agility or buff some element an agility, there will be only put on the element that fastest, for use stun-buff-attack trick and so on (double turn is a bouns)

to make anti-ability isnt bad idea, but it will useless if it hasnt accuracy (because in pvp nowaday, most of them are wind)
and agility come with dodge, thats why every build must counter dodge

i think the way to change agility to other like lightning, then the pvp will be 1-turn-kill, unless u lucky enough to not get critical strike
so its not good either

or REMOVE agility from any attribute (only apply in pvp) may the good idea? only higher level, 8-ex or agility item can act first
but if it done this way, u need to buff wind cuz it will lose all its adventage (and there are TONS of things to counter dodge like accuracy, numb, capture etc.) unless there are some anti-other ability like u said, or more agility items
Image
Image
User avatar
reifayeran
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:53 am
Location: Gensokyo

Re: Balancing elements

Postby Manx616 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:12 pm

reifayeran wrote:
1) wind is lowest damage (8x) thats why it cost less (8x), u see it can deal more damage than else cuz wind attribute give bonus damage to wind jutsu


So? this compaseates with skills and talents... full wind 8 ext hits harder than a full fire or full lightning, plus is faster and he can dodge almost anything.


reifayeran wrote: 3) we already have accuracy to conter dodge


we also have skills to counter purify, combustion, critical rate and reactive force. But these elements don't have any way (no skill, no back item/weapon) of increasing those stats (excluding lightning which have two actually)

on top of that. Accuracy on most weapons is only 15% only clan war rewards and some expensive weapons have 25% or more. An it does not even work at a 100% of the time.. Basically only Yoake Users should scare a full wind

reifayeran wrote: 4) adding agi to other element to make them different not just only wind can act first but else random, and make agility to be useful and more strategy


a full lightning outpeeding every other element is just too OP. to keep balance offensive elements should get more defense (bloodfeed for fire, blind for lightning) but adding agility to them could just kill full earth/water users.

Key word: Balance.

reifayeran wrote: 5) nerfing agi from 1 to 0.33 still have double turn


yes, they will still have double turns, and I'm HAPPY and OK with that. as long as they dont get double turn every single round, because thats too OP..

a double turn every 6-9 turns would be better to keep balance.
Manx616
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:59 am

Re: Balancing elements

Postby reifayeran » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:04 pm

Manx616 wrote:So? this compaseates with skills and talents... full wind 8 ext hits harder than a full fire or full lightning, plus is faster and he can dodge almost anything.


no attribute effect talent damage, and the damage range is random by +/-20% (dmg 100 can dealt by 80-120)
maybe u see pure wind get +20% and u see pure fire get -20% then u think 'hey!, pure wind is more damage than pure fire', but its not that wind attribute effect talent

Manx616 wrote:we also have skills to counter purify, combustion, critical rate and reactive force. But these elements don't have any way (no skill, no back item/weapon) of increasing those stats (excluding lightning which have two actually)

on top of that. Accuracy on most weapons is only 15% only clan war rewards and some expensive weapons have 25% or more. An it does not even work at a 100% of the time.. Basically only Yoake Users should scare a full wind


can u list the skill that counter those ability? (dont count disorient cuz its counter all, or clan reward cuz its not everyone have)

there are some 30% accuracy weapons from boss hunt
there is a 45% accuracy weapon from event
and clan weapon is around 20%-35% up to its effect (doesnt count yoake)

and u forgot something?
there are none anti-purify weapon
there are none anti-critical weapon
there are none anti-react.force weapon
there are none anti-combustion weapon

accuracy made for kill dodge, and its turn into 'normal status' of weapon
not like anti-other ability that should be 'special effect'

Manx616 wrote:a full lightning outpeeding every other element is just too OP. to keep balance offensive elements should get more defense (bloodfeed for fire, blind for lightning) but adding agility to them could just kill full earth/water users.

Key word: Balance.


not bad, but why bloodfeed for fire? (and it effect only weapon right?)
Spoiler: show
wind - bleeding, cut cp, numb
lighting - blind, stun
fire - accuracy
water - weaken, no cp cost
earth - internal injury, muddy, stun

these are effect from jutsu, so maybe can apply to attribute?


Manx616 wrote:yes, they will still have double turns, and I'm HAPPY and OK with that. as long as they dont get double turn every single round, because thats too OP..

a double turn every 6-9 turns would be better to keep balance.


thats why i think of remove agi from attribute in pvp, just get from skill and equipment only

Spoiler: show
well, maybe it should be like 'half agility from wind' in pvp?


Spoiler: show
i can say
make all element dmg 10x, and cost 10x
every attribute get +1 agi, 30hp, 30cp

just kidding
Image
Image
User avatar
reifayeran
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:53 am
Location: Gensokyo

PreviousNext

Return to Ninja Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

cron