Talent discussion (Dark Eye)

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Talent discussion (Dark Eye)

Postby Daisuke2105 » Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:25 am

Since they have just so called improved dark eye talent which seems not to be working whatsoever
(The CP rebound as DMG to opponent for reduction of CP by jutsu) - the kekkai skill

Every time I try to test the passive skill no DMG is rebounded- is there something Im missing here is or it just a mistake

FYI Dark Eye now has 4 Passives and 2 actives - WTF!!!
The only question here would be will it help by having more Passives considering DE only had 2 offence skills before now reduced to 1

I personally think its a terrible improvement (too Defensive DE should be balanced)

Re post-
I've realized what confused me when About how kekkai works
It only seems to apply in pvp however there seems to be no indication it's only for pvp so I tested it in friend battle which it didn't activate
Whereas in EoM rebound copy skills, it indicates its only for pvp
So maybe it would be wise to include that in the text.
And yea the skill isn't that bad, but it's a risky passive skill as people can just find ways around it
So I personally don't like the gambling part of it at all
Like the following comments below I too agree that it shouldn't have replaced it but have been an extra skill after merging the crit dodge and accuracy when awakening DE.
Last edited by Daisuke2105 on Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Talent discussion (Dark Eye)

Postby windwolf777 » Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:43 am

I....I have no idea how to feel about this......The damage wasn't that good, but I kinda liked the disruptive aspect of the needles. I just wanted them to add poison to them or something. I don't know.....Well, goodbye to needles. I shall kinda miss your disruptiveness and minor inconvenience to high CP skill users
EDIT: Personally, I would have changed the crit aspect.
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Re: Talent discussion (Dark Eye)

Postby Namito » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:48 am

4 passive skills.. hmm and what is the effect of the merridian kekkai at stage 10 exactly?
I have one character with dark eye but I don´t have it maxed out..
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Re: Talent discussion (Dark Eye)

Postby eonstratus » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:04 pm

dannytranvan wrote:Introducing the new skill, Meridian Kekkai!!

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Since Dark Eye talent is lacking defense skills, Ninja Saga decided to replace Acupuncture: Needle Barrage with Meridian Kekkai! Meridian Kekkai is basically a defense skill. What this does is that whenever a target tries to drain or reduce your CP, the target will receive damage (71% of absorbed/reduced CP) and a 60% chance of stun!

Ninja Saga may not be able to adapt the suggested improvement to the effects mentioned here, but did show concern about this Talent! A concern to make Dark Eye balanced with other talents.

AWAKENING DARK EYE.


I think dark eye was already a somewhat defensive/supportive talent. But What it was lacking was strong active skills That could make a direct impact in battle. It lacked either strong effects or damage to be able turn the tide of battle. That is what It needed to be competitive with the big 4 talents. The other 3 have more active skills with more serious game changing effects. I fear removing another attack/active skill from Dark EYE talent is a step in the wrong direction. Making the talent almost pure passive makes the talent too situational and depend too much on luck. (Talents should be mostly skills and a little bit of luck.)

The ability to make something happen yourself is far more crucial to battle then hoping and waiting for them to happen. This is how change and progress is made and why choice, strategy and skill should always be the most important, both in games and in life (or at least should be.) I'm worried the talent has become too crippled this way, when what it really needs is more freedom to make decisions with effects that will actually hurt. Currently its still the bottom of the 4 clans, when it should be dead equals with DP but both still slightly below EOM and 8ext (but still competitively balanced).

I Think the critical and dodge passive skills should just be merged into 1 passive skill. And the emptied slot should be filled with a new active skill. Something with a base damage roughly equal to Samurai 1 sword(without 40% buff) and either have a Locking effect (1turn lock +high accurate) or a Damage Over Time effect (3turn DoT +weaken.) (perhaps something like a "dark" chakra vacuum palm attack with a new DoT effect "vacuum".) Additionally Meridians Destruction should be upgraded to have damage roughly equal to Divine Onmyousamurai from DP. (but slightly weaker)
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Re: Talent discussion (Dark Eye)

Postby Shirou士郎 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:43 pm

Daisuke2105 wrote:Since they have just so called improved dark eye talent which seems not to be working whatsoever
(The CP rebound as DMG to opponent for reduction of CP by jutsu) - the kekkai skill

Every time I try to test the passive skill no DMG is rebounded- is there something Im missing here is or it just a mistake

FYI Dark Eye now has 4 Passives and 2 actives - WTF!!!
The only question here would be will it help by having more Passives considering DE only had 2 offence skills before now reduced to 1

I personally think its a terrible improvement (too Defensive DE should be balanced)


It is working correctly. Probably your understanding of testing Meridian Kekkai is lacking?
I think its a great improvement. But like someone said, It should have been an amendment not replacement of needle barrage. The dodge, Accuracy and Critical could sync into one slot and needle barrage could be improved with slightly more damage.
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Re: Talent discussion (Dark Eye)

Postby windwolf777 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:13 pm

eonstratus wrote:
dannytranvan wrote:Introducing the new skill, Meridian Kekkai!!

Image

Spoiler: show
Since Dark Eye talent is lacking defense skills, Ninja Saga decided to replace Acupuncture: Needle Barrage with Meridian Kekkai! Meridian Kekkai is basically a defense skill. What this does is that whenever a target tries to drain or reduce your CP, the target will receive damage (71% of absorbed/reduced CP) and a 60% chance of stun!

Ninja Saga may not be able to adapt the suggested improvement to the effects mentioned here, but did show concern about this Talent! A concern to make Dark Eye balanced with other talents.

AWAKENING DARK EYE.


I think dark eye was already a somewhat defensive/supportive talent. But What it was lacking was strong active skills That could make a direct impact in battle. It lacked either strong effects or damage to be able turn the tide of battle. That is what It needed to be competitive with the big 4 talents. The other 3 have more active skills with more serious game changing effects. I fear removing another attack/active skill from Dark EYE talent is a step in the wrong direction. Making the talent almost pure passive makes the talent too situational and depend too much on luck. (Talents should be mostly skills and a little bit of luck.)

The ability to make something happen yourself is far more crucial to battle then hoping and waiting for them to happen. This is how change and progress is made and why choice, strategy and skill should always be the most important, both in games and in life (or at least should be.) I'm worried the talent has become too crippled this way, when what it really needs is more freedom to make decisions with effects that will actually hurt. Currently its still the bottom of the 4 clans, when it should be dead equals with DP but both still slightly below EOM and 8ext (but still competitively balanced).

I Think the critical and dodge passive skills should just be merged into 1 passive skill. And the emptied slot should be filled with a new active skill. Something with a base damage roughly equal to Samurai 1 sword(without 40% buff) and either have a Locking effect (1turn lock +high accurate) or a Damage Over Time effect (3turn DoT +weaken.) (perhaps something like a "dark" chakra vacuum palm attack with a new DoT effect "vacuum".) Additionally Meridians Destruction should be upgraded to have damage roughly equal to Divine Onmyousamurai from DP. (but slightly weaker)


I always thought that they should have given Poison or something like CP drain on top of the locking at a level or that it would be locked back at whatever percentage of the skill it was at on use. (For example, 10000000 max cp, Cp at 100 some reason, they would be stuck at only having 15 cp or whatever the percentages were)
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Re: Talent discussion (Dark Eye)

Postby cyanine » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:28 am

I agree on what dannytranvan said. I think this is way too much of a nerf for DE. I have this talent too and I think this new "Meridian Kekai" is not a good improvement to the DE talent. It seems to me that DE has just been pushed down even more, when it is already inferior to DP in terms of useful status effects. Let me give my comparative opinion of the 2 talents DE and DP.

Compared to DP, DE now only have 1 offensive status inflicting skill, "Meridian Destruction"(2 turns restriction w/ low chance to disperse 1, target only) which is in itself is not as good as DP's "Burial"(3 turn cannot attack and cannot use jutsu and talent, applied to all 3 enemies), "One Sword"(Reduce dodge, reduce defence) and "Onmyousamurai"(Dmg+Heal).

Even in terms of Active Defensive skill, DE is inferior to DP. DE's "Meridian Anesthesia"(Minor dmg reduction, heal per turn but cannot charge) is not very attractive while DP's "Wondrous Door"(enemy attacks will heal instead of dmg) is very useful.

Also the other passive skills of DE is not really a big help. In fact, even when maxed out, the added dodge and crit rate is seemingly negligible. The only thing I can consider great in DE is the added accuracy and CP pool. On the other hand, DP's passive are not really so bad considering that DP only have 2 passive skills compared to DE's 4 passive skills.

This new MK would prove to be useless in PvP and Clan battles. Let's assume that PvP players already know what this passive talent does, then of course they can just avoid using jutsus that cause CP reduction to the enemy, and this skill would just be useless. There are also very few mission or boss enemies that cause CP reduction to the player, thus only useful in very few situations.

"Needle Barrage" should not have been replaced with this quiet lousy skill. It was way better since it gives DE the advantage of having better CP pool even if just for a short period.

I believe that DE and DP should be more comparable to each other since they are the only talents that players can get with gold. But the way things are going, DE is just dying. T_T
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Re: Talent discussion (Dark Eye)

Postby colmillonegro » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:44 pm

Ehh.... I'm the only one here who thinks this new skill was a terrible big buff to the talent?

Actually the passive actives with all type of chakra losing (except when you use jutsus). Even Yobi's chakra drain skill activates meridians kekkai, the pvp is now full of DE users. Just imagine a full earth player with the S45 weapon, he would have all the turns a 35% damage rebound with 60% of stun the enemy, all just by attacking him, not even draining his chakra.
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Re: Talent discussion (Dark Eye)

Postby eonstratus » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:26 am

colmillonegro wrote:Ehh.... I'm the only one here who thinks this new skill was a terrible big buff to the talent?

Actually the passive actives with all type of chakra losing (except when you use jutsus). Even Yobi's chakra drain skill activates meridians kekkai, the pvp is now full of DE users. Just imagine a full earth player with the S45 weapon, he would have all the turns a 35% damage rebound with 60% of stun the enemy, all just by attacking him, not even draining his chakra.

I think the kekkai passive skill should remain but as an addition rather than a subtraction to the talent's usable jutsu. Could you expand more on what known conditions that can trigger the skill? Its has a certain use in competitive battle because of how it effects All types of chakra loss but I can only think of a few jutsu that directly attack the CP. (like earth absorption or the lv 80 wind jutsu.) Clan weapons are extremely rare and will always be an advantage versus regular players who dont have any. Also does the pet receive the stun or does the ninja? pets will use their normal hit alot of the time which only adds minimal damage, if 1 pet sits one turn its only a minor inconvenience. (assuming the enemy will have yobi) The current players in PvP are probably just experimenting with their DE Dummy characters for a while because they want to test out the update.
Last edited by eonstratus on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Talent discussion (Dark Eye)

Postby eonstratus » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:31 am

I"m grateful the devs are finally willing to take another look at dark eye Though. I think The new kekkai passive was an inventive and strategic idea and should remain. The only things I would suggest is to merge the critical, accuracy, and dodge passives into 1 skill. Those are all small related attributes with minor bonuses that could all fit under 1 skill. And can all be triggered by simply awakening the dark eye. They never needed to be in separate jutsu.
Dark Eye
Spoiler: show
Description: The awakening of Dark Eye grants user with strong vision and reflexes.
Effect: Increase accuracy by 10%, Increase dodge chance by 5%, Increase critical chance by 5%
Dmg: --
CP: --
CD: [Passive Skill]

This puts the Dark Eye talent back to 3 passive skills and opens the opportunity for a decent new active skill to be added. Which is something thats sorely needed for DE. I've made a small suggestion for a new one above. Here's a suggestion if its a new active skill thats added.

Dark Eye: Dark Vacuum Palm
Spoiler: show
Description: Fire a compressed vacuum shell of darkened chakra to weaken foe and plunge them into a vacuum.
Effect: Inflict vacuum status. 40% weaken and 4% HP reduction (3 turns) or maybe 40% weaken and 40% blind (3 turns)
Dmg: [(lvl)x 1230%]
CP: [(lvl)x 1180%]
CD: 20
This is basically just a balanced inversion of DP: Samurai One Sword.

Secondly The charge disable penalty from "Meridians Anesthesia" should either be completely Removed or the heal and defense should at least be increased to 30% to make up for the handicap. (30% heal and 30% protection) (Deadly performance gives players a 2 turn immortality defense with no bad side effects.)
Dark Eye: Acupuncture Meridian Anesthesia
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Description: Anesthetize yourself to reduce damage and recover HP for a number of turns, but interfere with CP.
Effect: Reduce damage taken by 30% (4 turns), Recover HP by 30% each turn (3 turns), User is not allowed to charge (3 turns)
Dmg: --
CP: [(lvl)x820%]
CD: 16

Lastly "Acupuncture Meridians Destruction" needs to be seriously revised, not just in effect but also in damage. Meridian Destruction was one of the most severe things that have fallen with this talent after its initial release. Its effectiveness was an ultimate talent skill was severely crippled after the game wide update changes to restriction status. My suggestion is to give it a new status effect that works like the original restriction effect (so it can work as originally intended) along with a moderate increase in damage.
Dark Eye: Acupuncture Meridians Destruction
Spoiler: show
Description: Aim at meridians of target and acupuncture to interfere target's flow of chakra in the body.
Effect: Inflict "Lock" status to target. Target (cannot use skills and Talent skills)(2 turns), 30% chance to clear all buff of target
[Dmg: [(lvl)x 1540%] new
[CP: [(lvl)x 1000%] new
CD: 18 new

This would allow the Dark Eye talent be taken Seriously as a Worthy rival and Alternative to DP. (instead of something thats bought merely for collection and given only to throwaway characters)
Last edited by eonstratus on Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
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